tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post3770822754585531787..comments2024-02-28T05:25:12.859-05:00Comments on English, Jack: When "syndrome" is a final "s"Bretthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-72410497606392301432014-05-17T02:03:06.690-05:002014-05-17T02:03:06.690-05:00I am afraid things are a little messier than that....I am afraid things are a little messier than that. With /ls/ (as in 'else'), there is a fair degree of devoicing on the /l/; indeed, some speakers will pronounce it with an intervening /t/, resulting in /lts/. Ditto for 'dance', where many will say /-nts/. <br /><br />Etymologically, 'glimpse' did not have the 'p' there; today, the word is supposed to be pronounced either as /-ms/ or /-mps/. So is /ms/ allowed? - yes, sort of.<br /><br />This leaves 'purse' - but I believe this is a 'vowel + s' sequence rather than /rs/. I personally don't pronounced the 'r' there, so the final /s/ simply makes the preceding vowel shorter. Even with a r-coloured vowel, the same would apply. <br /><br />I wish I could say something clear, clean & clever - but I can't. The admirable _Longman Pronunciation Dictionary_ (2nd ed) briefly discusses the pronunciation of a final s, adding: 'Beyond this, there is no rule: each word must be considered separately' (p.704). How encouraging.Q Higuchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12065110305928472008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-25136571152130116782014-05-16T05:39:07.947-05:002014-05-16T05:39:07.947-05:00So why would, say plosive /s/ be out of the questi...So why would, say plosive /s/ be out of the question, but not liquid /s/ (e.g., else, purse)? Why is /ns/ (e.g., dance) OK but not /ms/?Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-34372078996392686002014-05-16T01:51:58.862-05:002014-05-16T01:51:58.862-05:00This is a tricky one. I think AIDS had no choice -...This is a tricky one. I think AIDS had no choice - the final consonant cluster could only have been /dz/; you can't really have /ds/ which is simply hard (or maybe awkward?) to pronounce. The same goes with /bs/, /gs/, /vs/, /ms/ etc. It is not impossible, but it just doesn't cut it. <br /><br />Incidentally, the final consonant cluster in 'cloths' is either voiceless+voiceless or voiced+voiced. The easier the better, I guess.<br /><br />With SARS, you had things like 'Mars', 'cars' etc. to model on. If it were spelled SARSS, you would easily have a final /s/. With MERS, there is room for variation.<br /><br />So, it looks like these acronyms aren't all that special; they seem to be just as (un)predictable as other countless words in English.Q Higuchihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12065110305928472008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-18327754241201205172014-05-16T00:26:52.270-05:002014-05-16T00:26:52.270-05:00Do proper names count? (Wells, Reynolds, Charles, ...Do proper names count? (<i>Wells</i>, <i>Reynolds</i>, <i>Charles</i>, <i>Holmes</i>, <i>Babs</i>, <i>Diggs</i>, <i>Reeves</i>, etc.)<br /><br />How about Latinisms? (<i>mens rea</i>, <i>vas deferens</i>.)<br /><br />I'm inclined to agree with 'me': I can't think of any English words in /-Xs/ where X is a voiced consonant.Ranhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01369980917358096502noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-22196990470539490282014-05-15T09:12:21.403-05:002014-05-15T09:12:21.403-05:00It certainly seems I wasn't as careful as I ha...It certainly seems I wasn't as careful as I had intended. I did a corpus query to look for examples, and after a few hundred, didn't turn any up. I've gone back and looked more carefully. In general, there are very few English nouns that end in a voiced consonant + s. But there are lots with vowel + s, and these are, as far as I can tell, all /s/.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-66402318902356594492014-05-15T08:48:40.866-05:002014-05-15T08:48:40.866-05:00There's also (a) means (e.g. of transport), gl...There's also (a) <i>means</i> (e.g. of transport), <i>glans</i>, <i>sans</i>, <i>gens</i>, <i>Thames</i>, and <i>Algiers</i>. <br /><br />In fact, I'm not sure I can think of any word in English where an (orthographic) final -s is pronounced /s/ rather than /z/ if that sound would directly follow a voiced consonant, whether the -s is a suffix or not. Matt_Mhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07179197161409408647noreply@blogger.com