tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post115413623495455987..comments2024-02-28T05:25:12.859-05:00Comments on English, Jack: The myth of FANBOYSBretthttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-75949192645566747512012-10-15T16:26:01.043-05:002012-10-15T16:26:01.043-05:00B, I think that would remove the ambiguity, but to...B, I think that would remove the ambiguity, but to my mind the comma should be removed in both cases.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-51469207017159779372012-10-15T15:59:10.347-05:002012-10-15T15:59:10.347-05:00Couldn't we remedy the situation by writing on...Couldn't we remedy the situation by writing one of the following:<br /><br />“I don’t want people to think [that] I am dangerous, and [that] I’m going to do something to their children.”<br /><br />"I don't want people to think I am dangerous...[or that] I'm going to do something to their children."<br /><br />In journalism, brackets are often used to add clarity to quotes that could be misconstrued. If it were not a quote, a writer could simply write around the issue (although here I am, using "were" for a logically "was" situation---grammar has us all tied up in knots.)Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-8642976147692108302010-09-11T07:58:24.138-05:002010-09-11T07:58:24.138-05:00In response to John's (if I've identified ...In response to John's (if I've identified the attributions correctly)stated difficulties with the concept of gerunds: <br />Quirk & Greenbaum, in 'A University Grammar of English', identify a gradience consisting of 17 levels from the deverbal noun to the present participle exhibited by the -ing forms of verbs. On their classification, levels 4, 5 & 6 (say)(I'm inventing here) might be considered to be gerunds.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-27411046054035487922010-05-19T18:35:14.982-05:002010-05-19T18:35:14.982-05:00I take issue with footnote [1] as well. I think th...I take issue with footnote [1] as well. I think the comma there just affects the scope of the coordination vs. the subordination. Without the comma, the natural reading is:<br /><br />"I don't want people to think (I am dangerous and I'm going to do something to their children)."<br /><br />With the comma, the only reading is:<br /><br />"(I don't want people to think I am dangerous), and (I'm going to do something to their children)."<br /><br />Commas can have similar effects in all sorts of situations where you have grammatical elements competing for scope. For example, with two coordinators: "A, or B and C." vs. "A or B, and C."<br /><br />In other words, I guess I don't buy the explanation in part because this line of reasoning seems to make so little sense. But of course you could still be right -- history suggests this wouldn't necessarily have been much of an impediment.jtohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968844388108605008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-85816817964426494372010-05-19T18:24:05.069-05:002010-05-19T18:24:05.069-05:00For a use of so as a coordinator, how about:
His ...For a use of <i>so</i> as a coordinator, how about:<br /><br />His grammatical wisdom was received, so unexamined.<br /><br />Awkward, pretentious maybe, but I'm sure I've heard this sort of thing. Here <i>so</i> means <i>and therefore</i>.jtohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03968844388108605008noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-36062283735275379832008-12-10T20:33:00.000-05:002008-12-10T20:33:00.000-05:00No, dog, those are not coordinating. Rather they'r...No, dog, those are not coordinating. Rather they're part of what is being coordinated. In the first, <I>so</I> modifies each adjective. We could simply remove <I>so</I>s and still have the three coordinated adjectives. In your second example, you have coordinated preposition phrases. In each case, <I>for</I> is a preposition, and head of the phrase that's being coordinated, but it is not doing the coordination.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-47447707700968379492008-12-10T20:17:00.000-05:002008-12-10T20:17:00.000-05:00Re: "So what individual words (that are not clause...Re: "So what individual words (that are not clauses) can be coordinated by so or for?"<BR/><BR/>Ummm, perhaps in constructions such as:<BR/><BR/>The book is so tedious, so banal, so tendentious.<BR/>and<BR/>They died for their country, for their comrades, for their flag.<BR/><BR/>Or do I misunderstand? All the grammar I know I learned when I studied Latin. English, I only speak her.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-1813527423551890452008-10-10T20:56:00.000-05:002008-10-10T20:56:00.000-05:00I wonder if the comma-so came about from the shift...I wonder if the <EM>comma-so</EM> came about from the shift away from the <EM>comma-and-so</EM>.<BR/><BR/><EM><BR/>He didn't like his job, and so he didn't go to work.</EM><BR/><BR/>Or maybe there's a historical mirroring of what happened with <EM>but-meaning-however</EM>?<BR/><BR/>I read older 19th century pieces that use those constructions rather than the stuffier:<BR/><BR/><EM>He didn't like his job; therefore he didn't go to work.</EM><BR/><BR/>That would mean the <EM>so-therefore</EM> connection is following the <EM>but-however</EM> connection.<BR/><BR/><EM>He's a tough coach, but he helped me improve my game.</EM><BR/><BR/>versus<BR/><BR/><EM>He's a tough coach; however, he helped me improve my game.</EM><BR/><BR/>where one is 'stuffier' than the other. <BR/><BR/>Has anyone looked into that? If <EM>comma-so</EM> is just taking its cue from <EM>comma-but</EM>, maybe there's historical precedence to the shift?<BR/><BR/>But I'm not a grammarian, nor am I a historian, so...Gabriel, Faux-Artistéhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15608430774869068174noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-37497564033350589572008-04-17T18:02:00.000-05:002008-04-17T18:02:00.000-05:00I certainly wouldn't want to try to explain this t...I certainly wouldn't want to try to explain this to a students taking freshman composition, but to be honest, I don't see any value in FANBOYS at all. The rule about the comma isn't a rule at all. It's not about being right 99% of the time. If you send me an e-mail address, I'll send you a longer version of this.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-21761004147526517362008-04-17T15:02:00.000-05:002008-04-17T15:02:00.000-05:00I'm an English teacher who uses FANBOYS, and I do ...I'm an English teacher who uses FANBOYS, and I do so because I'd rather teach kids to be right 99% of the time than bore them with the nuances of the other 1%. Although I appreciate your observation about the FANBOYS "myth," I don't know a sophomore who would care in the least. Your thoughts?Alex Sparehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07429941210419591949noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-20741228003808685052008-03-04T16:40:00.000-05:002008-03-04T16:40:00.000-05:00very very nicevery very niceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-1159108900225995352006-09-24T09:41:00.000-05:002006-09-24T09:41:00.000-05:00Sorry, I don't think I understand the question. Ca...Sorry, I don't think I understand the question. Can you rephrase it and post it as a comment under the entry to which it relates?Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-1159066501534766482006-09-23T21:55:00.000-05:002006-09-23T21:55:00.000-05:00I appreciate the clarification. I was trying to m...I appreciate the clarification. I was trying to make the point that gerunds serve in the place of nouns, but it isn't as clear as I hoped it would be. Furthermore, I was attempting to clarify what the workbook we use for the writing class says and the actual situation. What you say about gerunds being modified by adverbs is very helpful, and I will try to use it the next time I teach gerunds.<BR/><BR/>I am not sure though whether by two classes of words you mean gerunds and nouns or some other classes. Could you please clarify?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03036502817722430447noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-1158920890881684642006-09-22T05:28:00.000-05:002006-09-22T05:28:00.000-05:00You're entirely right, John. But if there were a c...You're entirely right, John. But if there were a comma, these <B>would</B> become two independent clauses, the second with a very sinister meaning. It's one of the few cases where the comma "rule" actually makes sense. I suggest that such a "rule" might have grown out of an observation of this limited phenomenon.Bretthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02870575277556244419noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-31830497.post-1158894776909704782006-09-21T22:12:00.000-05:002006-09-21T22:12:00.000-05:00I had a similar experience with FANBOYS. This is ...I had a similar experience with FANBOYS. This is a very informative post. <BR/>However, I don't think I understand what you are trying to do with the quote:“I don’t want people to think I am dangerous and I’m going to do something to their children.” You wouldn't use a comma before <B>and</B> in this sentence because these are both that clauses or subordinate clauses which are not joined as two independent clauses would be, or did I miss something here?Johnhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03036502817722430447noreply@blogger.com